Two Nurses & A Therapist
Working in healthcare is not (now or really, ever has been!), for the faint of heart. So many of us are overwhelmed, exhausted, and considering hard choices.
We get it.
We've been there; even before the pandemic years.
For the three of us, there has been a big shift in how we see things. We see things from the inside out now - not from the outside pushing in on us.
It's been the best thing - personally and professionally.
Two Nurses & A Therapist - The Innate Health Podcast. By & for healthcare providers who would love some peace of mind and mental well being.
Join us.
Two Nurses & A Therapist
02 - Anxiety - Peace of Mind Thief
What if we told you that anxiety is not the enemy, but a natural signal guiding us back to balance? Join us on this enlightening journey with Two Nurses and a Therapist as we explore anxiety through an inside-out perspective, transforming it from a dreaded foe into a transient whisper of wisdom. We'll share insights and strategies that challenge the typical anxious mindset, drawing lessons from the natural world—where animals and children effortlessly recover from stress. By recognizing anxiety as a fleeting signal, you'll learn to let it pass, trusting that clarity and action will follow in their own time.
Together, we'll uncover the innate human capacity for emotional self-regulation, discovering how simple acts of storytelling and listening can provide profound comfort. We'll discuss the societal urge to medicate anxiety and how this parallels the absurdity of treating natural bodily responses as ailments. Through personal stories from our healthcare experience, you'll see how anxiety's contagious nature can be tempered by presence and deep listening. We'll also introduce a groundbreaking psychology paradigm that highlights the inherent health of the mind, promising a transformative impact on healthcare providers. Join our community of growth as we share, learn, and support each other on this path to a happier, healthier life.
Two nurses and a therapist walk into a bar. The nurse orders drinks, but the therapist opts for water with lemon, explaining she's the designated listener, calling all healthcare providers welcome to Two Nurses and a Therapist your podcast for raw truth and real relief. These hosts share a profound understanding about the mind that leads to a happier, healthier life. Imagine feeling more than okay, not just faking it, but truly thriving. This podcast isn't about band-aids. It's about learning what is not yet taught in nursing schools. But if we have anything to say about that, it will be because it makes a huge difference for the health of the helper. Meet your hosts Wendy Williams, tyson Larson and Laurie Carpenos. They've seen it all on the front lines and they're here to tell you you're not alone. So grab your beverage of choice and join us, because in this crazy world of healthcare we can all use friends. And they promise only 25 minutes for each weekly episode, sometimes less. This is Two Nurses and a Therapist. Let's listen in.
Wendy, RN:Hi there everyone. It's Two Nurses and a Therapist, endy Tyson and Laurie, and we're excited to talk today about something that is completely universal anxiety. What is anxiety? Why is it a problem? I mean, we've all heard the general diagnosis of general anxiety disorder or anxiety disorder, et cetera, and with this inside out understanding, this inside out paradigm, within need, health, there's a really wonderful, healthier view of anxiety that we want to talk about today. And, um, I love what laurie said just before we started recording about zebras. Laurie, what did you just say?
Lori, LMFT:well, there's a book called um why zebras Don't Get Ulcers, which is true of the natural world. Like you know, there are predators out in the natural world wanting to eat other animals and so the animal is running away from the predator and that causes anxiety in the system of the animal also. But as soon as they are safe and away from the predator, they calm right down. They're right back to that. That's natural. It's natural.
Lori, LMFT:I think you were saying there's a certain amount of minutes three to four minutes. Is that what you learned, Wendy? That we get anxious maybe a few times a day because you know we didn't see the car coming around the side of us or somebody's pulling out when we're pulling into a parking space or all sorts of things, and you feel yourself, you know, catching your breath, and as soon as we realize we're safe, that's the time we can self-regulate and bring ourselves back. But a lot of what I've seen with my clients is that they extend that period of time for many more minutes hours, you name it because they get anxious about the fact that they're anxious. That feeling of anxiety can cause more anxiety when people don't understand. It is a signal that lets us know okay, you're safe. Now you can settle down.
Wendy, RN:Yeah, oh, I love that. Yeah, I think that's one of my favorite things I've learned recently too is the word signal, that um, these anxious feelings are signals, um, to help us. And yesterday I was making um, I was introducing the concept of you know we talked about it here, I think, last time homeostasis that the body naturally has ways of getting back into balance. So I was using the term of if you're taking a run and you run out of breath, you get winded, you everybody just kind of naturally stops, slows down. You know, I could see runners on the side of the road putting their hands on their knees, bent over, catching their breath.
Wendy, RN:Now can you imagine if you panicked and you said why am I out of breath? What's wrong with me? What happened? I better go to the doctors, I'm out of breath. And the doctor might say so, let me get this straight. You were running. So let me get this straight. You were running and you ran out of breath, and then you stopped running and you caught up with your breath. Why are you coming to me? Right, we would. We'd find that kind of an interesting concept. So I've kind of been thinking about anxiety as being a psychological shortness of breath episode that will pass when we rest. So anyway, that's what came to me. Anxiety is such an interesting conversation, right?
Tyson, RN:And when you talked about zebras, too, I was reminded of kids. When they have a tantrum, they have their tantrum or they get angry and five minutes later they're totally fine. They don't even remember what they were angry about half the time. But as adults, for some reason we've learned that we need to try to solve that quote unquote problem. That we were angry about. But if we can just let it go, that we were angry about, but if we can just let it go, usually if there's something that needs to be done, it'll come to us without us thinking about it and mulling it over, because mulling it over just makes us more angry.
Tyson, RN:So, yeah, it's like the zebras shake it off or the wild animals shake it off. We can just shake it off, and if there's something that needs to be done, it'll come to us without us thinking about it.
Lori, LMFT:When we look at it as a problem, that's when we get ourselves into trouble. When we look at it as natural and it only lasts a minute until we realize that we're okay. There was no car accident Like we anticipated when we saw somebody coming at us, and then we settled down again yeah, yeah, that's really cool.
Wendy, RN:I, I, um, I love that idea that, because when you talked about kids, it reminds me I've not been a mother myself. I've been a stepmother and I've raised children. I've been around children. But one of the best things to do is like when a little kid comes home and they're wrapped up with something like oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, and they're wrapped up with something like oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, and they're anxious, they're anxious, they're anxious.
Wendy, RN:What we do with children typically is very natural. We say, okay, all right, let's go, let's talk about it or come on in. Why don't you go get a sandwich and a glass of milk? And you know, you know, calm down a little bit, whatever, like we know how to guide other people to kind of calm down. Let you know that the thing that they're worked up about in the moment, you know, the bully isn't the playground. The bully playground isn't in our house right now. So you know, like if we could just get the child to calm down.
Wendy, RN:My point is that we know what to do, we already know what to do, but sometimes we as adults or, you know, nurses in the ER with too many patients coming at us or whatever, can get caught up in like, oh my gosh, and you know, start throwing stuff around, calling in sick whatever you know we could get. Let that, let that stuff brew and keep and keep picking at it and going at it, picking at it and going at it, rather than again the human system under functional MRI seems to have a peak and a trough of you know three minutes for an anxious thought or a sad thought or a scary thought to kind of have its way, before our system naturally calms down. And what can happen in that three minutes is that we could run away. If we're the zebra, we could run away from the elephant, we could. You know the three minutes. That's a call to action. But like you said, laurie, we look around and go. Oh, I guess I didn't get run over by that car, so interesting, right.
Lori, LMFT:Yeah, it sure is. You know, and what you were saying about the child being anxious about the bullies, and see, that's children are the best teachers, because they get upset, they want to talk about it, they want to have someone, like in this instance, they're coming home from school and they want their parent, who's there to just listen quietly, their parent who's there to just listen quietly. And when the parent listens quietly, that calms the child down because the child feels heard. And that's been my, that's been my experience. You know they have, they don't have. Young children do not have thoughts about what anxiety means. They don't know anything about diagnoses, general anxiety disorder, you know that sort of thing. They're not coming home saying, oh, mommy, I have a problem with anxiety. Hopefully not, hopefully not. They're just coming home wanting to tell the story about what happened to them.
Wendy, RN:Yeah, Kind of an interesting thing you're just pointing out there that the human beings come to the planet with an inner GPS or an inner guidance system. Even the little kid knows you know what would really help. Right now Somebody listen to me. Yeah, so interesting, right. Yeah, so not only does the mom in our little scenario have some wisdom about that, she might not apply to herself when she's anxious, right. But so that's kind of where we can get into this multi-billion dollar industry of medicating people with anxiety.
Wendy, RN:Medications, which we could probably devote a whole podcast to, is the whole pharmaceutical industrial complex that's built up around anxiety helping people. Can you imagine it Just my little idea before if a whole pharmaceutical industry built up around shortness of breath from running, you know something natural, something normal, something you know signal, you know, like if there was a whole industry around. When you skin your knee, yeah, okay, we wash it, put a bandaid on it and forget about. Forget about it, because it is a natural healing system that it occurs. But what if we all just there were commercials about skin knees and warnings on pill pill bottles about skin? I mean, you know it's. It's kind of silly to think about, but in my mind, understanding how our psychological functioning works. It's we're kind of talking the same thing, yeah.
Tyson, RN:Yeah, and when we, and when we know that for ourselves and see that for ourselves, that we do have this inbuilt ability to settle down when something happens, we can be better listeners and more present for people who are ramped up, especially as parents, caregivers, nurses. I had an incident this weekend and I had a patient that was discharging. She was very anxious about leaving, she wanted to be out the door at a certain time and I found myself getting kind of caught up in her anxiety and trying starting to rush through the process and somebody one of my coworkers kind of called me out on it, like, hey, what's going on? Like you don't usually get this ramped up. And I'm like, hey, what's going on? Like you don't usually get this ramped up. And I'm like, oh, I'm feeding off of her anxiety. And thank goodness my co-worker saw that and I know for myself that that's me like getting ramped up and forgetting my own innate ability to stay calm in these situations. So I was able to come back down to my regulated place and let my patient have her anxiety. But just knowing that for myself, I was able to calm down and also my patient calmed down when I talked to her in a slower fashion and let her know everything was being worked out. It was okay, we're going to get you out the door, no need to get ramped up, and and she was, she was out the door on time and and it's just a.
Tyson, RN:It was a really good reminder for me that those situations it can feel like it's contagious, that anxiety, and we want to make people feel better but we don't. It's kind of you know the old cliche put the oxygen mask on yourself before helping somebody else. You don't go into help a drowning person by drowning. You need to calm your, you have to come down first and get regulated and then you can be present for them. And it's not helpful if you notice that you're ramped up. Even mid sentence you can be, you know, getting caught up in somebody that you're talking to in their story, and once you notice that the best thing to do is just silence until you can, you can really see and feel that for yourself, that you can come back to that homeostasis and be present for them, Because that's as we know, deep listening and presence is really key in helping other people.
Lori, LMFT:You know the fact that you were open, yson, to your co-worker. You didn't get defensive, which can happen a lot in a workplace, but you were totally open. It almost sounded to me like you were grateful for her pointing it out to you. You and we don't always notice it in ourself because we're so focused on what's outside of us, like you were focused on your patient and so having somebody come over and remind you and you being so open to oh, thank you, I didn't realize that and now I can do something healthy about it, which is just drop into my own innate health, my own innate wisdom.
Tyson, RN:And I will say I was coming, it was my fifth day of working and I was tired, and so it makes sense that I did get more caught up into it and my coworker, honestly, wasn't being kind by telling me that it was more kind of a dig and I could have taken it very personal and there was a part of me that was like kind of going there, but I just knew like, no, that is a signal that, yeah, other people are noticing it.
Tyson, RN:I am ramped up and thank you for pointing it out to me, and I can do that myself oftentimes too, like when I do notice that my, my thoughts are ramped up and I'm having, you know, a moment, I can think, oh, wow, this is a signal. This is a signal for me to just calm down and do nothing. And I know this is probably the most frustrating part of learning. This is that there's really nothing to do when you notice that, except just let your system calm down, stare at the clouds, stare at a wall, just sit in silence, go for a walk, yeah, yeah.
Wendy, RN:And you know what I'm noticing when you're talking about calming down, I'm just going to be very you know, this is just me talking personally here Like when somebody says to me, calm down, it's like the last thing I want to do. Like if they literally say those words to me, calm down, I'm like, oh real, you know, like I get up, I get a real serious head shaking attitude, like dude really. But what I hear in that is, if we recognize the signal of I'm getting ramped up and being ramped up is not a problem, it is a signal, it's a call, as Laurie said earlier, it's a love letter from the universe, something saying hello, tapping on my shoulder. You're in a place, you're ramped up at a place where good ideas can't come to you, creativity can't come to you, what to do next can't be really heard because the anxiety is so loud.
Wendy, RN:So something that occurs to me is when I go, oh, I'm ramped up, I need to let the dust settle, I need to quiet, because then I'm going to be much more effective in the next few minutes of my life. So there's something about the self-talk about let this settle, let this pass, let this go, rather than calm down. So that's just me being Wendy, but anyway, yeah, yeah, a lot of great conversation. This has been a great conversation. We want to be conscious of the fact that we want to stick this to as close to 20, 25 minutes as possible, and so we'll. We'll be back nurses and a therapist talking more about a lot of different things, but we're glad to be in this conversation with you about the innate health of the psychological system and this new paradigm of psychology that has, frankly, changed the three of us in amazing ways. We're so grateful for it, the three of us in amazing ways.
Tyson, RN:We're so grateful for it and we can't wait to continue to share it with our friends in healthcare. We'd love to hear any feedback you have from this episode or any episode, so if you want to leave us a comment, please do so. Share any insights you've had or any questions you might have. Something you're seeing may be different and maybe need a little bit of clarification, or just need someone to talk to about it. We're here. Just leave us a comment and we will comment back and reach out to you.
